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LIVE BLOG: Robert McBride to focus on Shaun Abrahams

McBride is scheduled to conclude leading evidence at the Zondo commission of inquiry and is expected to level allegations of bias against the NPA under the leadership of Advocate Shaun Abrahams.

WATCH: Robert McBride concludes testimony at Zondo Commission

Lunch adjournment. 

McBride says says he noticed a similar pattern of transfers and suspensions in the Hawks and at Sars.

McBride reports that during his absence from Ipid, at least eight senior managers were affected by transfer or suspension.

McBride now talks about returning from his suspension and finding that things had changed.

He has now also explained that he paid personally for all his court bids and the criminal case he had to fight in 2016. He was reimbursed for the ConCourt matter.

McBride had told Parliament that the rendition case cost the state R17 million. 

Mcbride says one of Kgamanyane’s first decisions was to cancel the the brief that IPID challenge the minister.

McBride says Ipid never reimbursed him for the criminal case. "That's the tragedy of all this." He says.

McBride talks about paying for his legal processes with his own money. He says he got reimbursed for some of it.

He notes there will be more evidence on this.

Zondo says if someone is going to recommend people be criminally charged they really need to apply their minds, because being criminally charged is not a small matter. 

He says it would be a thumb suck and there would be no basis to say the removal of quotations from a statement in the report was improper.

McBride is talking about the deletion of some parts of the report which is contained in the Werksmans report.

McBride says in his interview with Werksmans he stood by the report he signed and he expressed in confidence that no court of law would successfully prosecute, Shadrack Sibiya and Anwa Dramat.

"He inquired to Mr July whether he was a suspect in anything," says McBride who reports July replied in the negative, and yet later recommended Sesoko be charged.

McBride is adamant that the transcription of Sesoko's interview with Werksmans remains absent. 

 Pretorius notes this was addressed in McBride's submissions to the ConCourt on Ipid matters.

McBride filed a critique of the Werksmans report in his submissions to the High Court.

Pretorius refers to Khuba's statement during his Werksmans interview in which he says McBride might have made inputs and made queries about how things were done but at no time, he says, did McBride instruct him to make alterations to the report.

McBride says some statements were removed from the report because they had "no evidentiary value" to the investigation.

The former Ipid head says July seemed confused at this stage and he did not understand why July said the report was inconclusive.

According to the Werksmans transcript, McBride tells July that the report he signed on was not inconclusive. 

McBride says he never said it was an inconclusive report with Werksmans. 

McBride says he spoke to Nathi Nhleko and indicated there was a way to de-escalate the matter at a stadium in Cape Town.

Pretorius refers McBride to the transcript of his interview with Werksmans where McBride refers to cell phone records and additional evidence relevant to the "so-called renditions case" as well as warning statements.

And we are back.

The commission adjourns for tea.

McBride talks about how Dramat was resented for his struggle credentials. He says some envied him and he didn't understand why.

"Some people have struggle envy." McBride says.

McBride says "I even feel uncomfortable saying this..." McBride says there was a notion that he and Dramat were from the same background. He says Dramat and his father  were on Robben Island together.

Chair Zondo condemns evidence that was  not taken into account.

Mcbride points out that none of the evidence in the docket was removed or tampered...

McBride says he thinks the plan was to get rid of former Hawks boss Anwa Dramat using the rendition case.

McBride says he had last experienced the line of questioning he experienced with Werksmans during apartheid.

"Whatever Mr July says Mr Khuba says, an investigation cannot be complete if evidence is outstanding.  The more I go back to this, it's quite obvious, even to Mr July... what they were on about was a non-event." McBride says.

McBride says he did the Werksmans interview on 17 April 2015. 

"It would be thousands chair," McBride responds.

Pretorius asks how many reports Ipid sends to the NPA per year.

McBride says there is provision for both provincial or national leaders signing off reports, depending on the office from which they derive.

Pretorius interrogates McBride on statutory requirements on signing off Ipid reports. 

McBride is now commenting on his interactions with Werksmans over the "so-called renditions case" and says there seemed to be an obsession with the mere existence of another, preliminary report that seemingly blinded people to things being in order.


He raised concerns about the involvement of Crime Intelligence because Crime Intelligence in itself had been involved in the rendition.

McBride explains what he told Werksmans regarding the first report into the renditions case. 

Pretorius asks if any of the crime intelligence people mentioned in the report were arrested. McBride says some were arrested on suspicion on 'about to commit a crime'. 

Pretorius says keeping with the ConCourt ruling, the Werksmans report into McBride would have to be disregarded, given that it infringes on the unit's independence.

McBride is expected to wrap up his testimony with details of the investigation of former National Police Commissioner Khomotso Phahlane and the counter investigation against himself and Ipid investigators.

Pretorius is reading from the Constitutional Court judgment - which summarised the facts related to the Rendition reports, and the fact the second report cleared Dramat and Sibiya of involvement in the alleged crime.

Advocate Pretorius is leading him through his statement related to the Werksmans report.

This is day three of McBride presenting evidence. 

So what do we know so far?

Good morning and welcome to EWN's live blog about Former IPID head Robert McBride's testimony at the Zondo commission of inquiry.