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LIVE BLOG: Day 2 of Robert McBride’s testimony at the state capture inquiry

LIVE BLOG: Day 2 of Robert McBride’s testimony at state capture inquiry

WATCH LIVE: 'Silent coup' and 'political gangsterism': Robert McBride resumes testimony at Zondo Commission



Zondo says the inquiry will resume on Monday at 9.30am.

McBride says journalists should question and should have a healthy cynicism and suspicion like investigators in assessing information especially in a contested terrain of ideas.

McBride says the Sunday Independent were not the initiator of the story.

McBride the media should have asked whether the leaked Werksman report had been considered by the minister before using it.

McBride says the Sunday Times started the story in 2011, and the Werksman report was used by people in proving their leaked information.

McBride says there’s no reason for anyone to reach a different conclusion on the report that he signed.

Zondo asks McBride whether Sandile July had looked into or discussed why the Werksman report was changed.

McBride says after his return at Ipid, he request handover but  Kgamanyane refused.

McBride says he doesn't know who leaked the report to the 'Sunday Times'. 

Zondo asks Pretorius to follow the sequence of suspensions at Ipid (Anwa Dramat, Shadrack Sibiya etc)

Zondo asks for the commission to look at McBride's letter of suspension and reasons given for that...

A single source signed one and the legitimate 3 person signed report. 

McBride says that Werksman didn't know which report they were to investigate and they had 2 reports. 

Chair Zondo asks for clarification on what McBride stated about Werksman's report on alterations...

McBride says the people at Werksman told him to get a lawyer to which he says he didn't need one because he did nothing wrong.

McBride says  the notion of the rule of law was thrown out by Minister Nhleko. 

He allegeds the NPA's Adv Anthony Mosing who was involved in the matter knew that the report signed by Khuba was not the final report and had even communicated this with his boss at the time Advocate Jiba.

McBride says there were various Preliminary reports in the rendition case but only one of them was signed by Khuba.

McBride says his email address was spelt wrong so that he doesn't get information.

Pretorius asks McBride who replaced him after his suspension...

"It's not only malicious but orchestrated and showed things to come." McBride says.

"It shows a tendency by him, to have by any means necessary, to have his way." McBride says about Nhleko.

The Ipid head is now defending Anwa Dramat on the Zimbabwean rendition case...

McBride says the reason the charges were dropped was because Sandile July of Werksmans refused to testify.

This is despite the report stating its contents cannot be used for litigation.

McBride says there was no other evidence that was relied on to charge them but the Werksmans report. 

Adv Pretorius asks McBride to talk about the rendition...

And we are back from  the break...

The commission has adjourned for lunch and will resume at 2pm today.

McBride says about three days later, after giving their warning statements, he and his co-accused were told to present themselves. He says when they submitted their statements, officials were already in possession of their warrants of arrest. 

McBride says he was unaware of warrants of arrest when he and his co-accused provided a warning statement. 

McBride says he and his co-accused were arrested and faced charges of fraud and defeating the ends of justice. 

Pretorius asks what the charges were. McBride says he was charged on 15 March 2016. Pretorius asks why there was a delay in being charged. McBride explains the delay is related to the investigation and disciplinary proceedings. 

Pretorius asks McBride what happened on 15 March 2015.

Pretorius to tells Zondo he will present a chronological timeline in future. 

9 December 2014 - Notice to suspend Dramat. This is the first date listed by Pretorius. He is now explaining how events unfolded, using a non-chronological timeline. 

Pretorius has Zondo whether he can present a timeline on evidence. Zondo says he won't make notes. Pretorius says he will print it. 

Zondo laughs and asks McBride, "Don't blames me on my opinion, base a decision on evidence?" McBride agrees and says a decision taken must be based on evidence. 

McBride agrees with Zondo and says a decision should be based on a decision, not misinterpretation or the opinion of the evidence leader.

Zondo says a decision should be based on evidence not necessarily a report, or what is said in a report. 

McBride says there's a misunderstanding on how the criminal justice system works from the minister and some other officials. 

Zondo now questioning McBride on Ipid's independence. 

McBride says Ipid must account to Parliament. He says he doesn't know why Nhleko was unhappy with him following the law. "He seems to misunderstand his authority. The minister did not understand the notion of independence of Ipid. He did not understand where his authority began and ended. He preferred Werksmans to Parliament."

Pretorius, the evidence leader, is now dealing with a letter McBride penned to Parliament over his suspension. He has asked McBride to explain why he sent it. McBride says there was a "commitment to account" on his part and the "minister should have welcomed it". 

To gain more clarity, Zondo now asked McBride whether the former police minister invited him to explain his conduct. McBride again denied any invite from the minister. He said: "No, chair, no."

He asks McBride whether the former police minister spoke to him before his suspension or invited him to explain his conduct. McBride said "no". McBride said the minister only asked him to explain why he should not be suspended. 

Pretorius now deals with allegations against McBride in his suspension letter. 

The commission has now resumed. Zondo tells evidence leader Pretorius to proceed. 

Here are some moments you may have missed during Robert McBride's testimony at the Zondo Commission so far.

  • Former Ipid head Robert McBride is testifying at the Zondo Commission into state capture. He's claimed that former Police Minister Nathi Nhleko interferred in investigations and undermined due process in order to fire him and senior Ipid investigators. Nhleko had accused McBride and the investigators of unlawfully changing an investigation report relating to the Zimbabwe rendition case in order to clear implicated officers.
  • McBride also questioned why he and former Hawks head Anwa Dramat were suspended.
  • McBride appeared to defend himself and Dramat. He said they were willing to lay down their lives to end dehumanization and injustices during apartheid.  
  • McBride further said claims made against him in suspension were malicious. 
  • During proceedings, McBride was questioned about his suspensions, as well as Dramat's. Deputy Chief Justice Raymond Zondo then asked that testimony be covered in chronological order.
  • McBride said that Nhleko relied on the Werksmans report to fire him and two investigators, not the report signed by him. Werksmans was commissioned by the former police minister to conduct an investigation into the reports submitted by Ipid which dealt with the rendition case.

The commission has adjourned for a short break.

McBride says Nhleko relied on preliminary Ipid report to suspend Dramat, not the report signed by McBride. 

McBride says there is no way the minister (Nhleko) looked at the report he signed.  

Zondo has explained to evidence leader advocate Paul Pretorius why the events must be covered in chronological order. 

"The report came after the suspension. It will be helpful or me if we follow the events as they happened," Zondo explains. 

Zondo asks McBride who was suspended first between him and Dramat. McBride responds that Dramat was suspended first. Judge Zondo requests that the testimony be given in sequence with the suspensions. 

There were two reports into the Zimbabwean rendition case. McBride is now being questioned on the first and second report.  

Some background. In 2015, Werksmans Attorneys - which was commissioned by former Police Minister Nathi Nhleko to probe the rendition case - found that the report into the Zimbabwean rendition case was altered to ensure that McBride and Dramat wouldn't be implicated. The pair denied the allegations.  

McBride questions why he and Dramat were charged in the first place. 

Deputy Chief Justice Raymond Zondo asked McBride whether Werksmans overlooked important issues in their report into the investigation. McBride responded: "That's correct." 

McBride says he was on vacation when he offered to discuss the Zim rendition case with Werksmans, who was commissioned to investigate the matter at the time. 

McBride says a private company, referring to Werksmans, should not be telling a body like the NPA what to investigate. 

McBride tells the commission of an invitation Innocent Khuba received from Nhleko. Khuba who was the investigator of the Zim rendition case. 

McBride has been asked who replaced him after his suspension.

McBride is now being questioned about his suspension. 

McBride has described claims made against him as "malicious".

McBride says he and former Hawks head Anwa Dramat were willing to lay their lives down to end dehumanization and injustices during apartheid.  

McBride is now reading from former minister of police Nathi Nhleko’s presentation to Parliament. Nhleko claimed he was inundated with files on corruption within SAPS, among them the alleged rendition of Zimbabwean suspects.

On Thursday, McBride detailed how police management delayed corruption probes. He claimed classification was used to hide wrongdoing by officials. McBride has referred to the capture of law enforcement agencies as a silent coup and political gangsterism.

Robert McBride has taken the stand at the Zondo Commission of Inquiry where he will continue his testimony on Friday.